(Kiri is our night's ring
Russ: howís it going?
Kiri: itís going good.
Kiri: hmmph.....my sister.
Russ: ahhh, your lovely sister. Actually your
lovely, intelligent, beautiful, charming and poised
Kiri: you mean the interfering, old busybody?
Calling me down and having me give a blood sample to
see if Iím pregnant and Iíve just come off my
Russ: I thought you were pregnant.
Russ: why did Mark say the rabbit died?
Russ: Mark said the rabbit died.
Kiri: I donít follow.
Russ: oh itís an earth expression, if the rabbit
dies youíre pregnant.
Kiri: yeah, thatís what I mean but did Mark say
something like that?
Kiri: oh, he did did he?
Russ: uh-huh, oh well.
Kiri: no it didnít die, it got off the table and ran
away and hid.
Russ: I think.
Kiri: I didnít think I was pregnant, apparently my
big sister thought I was pregnant.
Russ: could happen.
Kiri: yeah it happens.
Russ: it happens. Better safe than sorry.
Kiri: oh of course, I knew I wasnít.
Russ: of course you did. How you doing dear?
Kiri: Iím doing good.
Kiri: okay, okay, okay, I overheard that you guys
have a dilemma.
Russ: oh good.
Kiri: the due date of the test is whilst Mark is
Russ: oh yes, uh-huh, certainly will be tough to
make our presentations whilst heís gone and you're
Russ: unless he's going to channel overseas.
Kiri: donít be surprised if you see a very hazy form
Russ: Iíd be very surprised, itíd be the last thing
Kiri: heís getting good you know with his astral
Russ: of course, he practices enough.
Russ: that's good.
Kiri: yes. So okay, as we have a light session, why
don't we do a half a tape.
Russ: what a wonderful idea.
Kiri: uh-huh and itís also very late.
Russ: and I've got four hours sleep under my belt.
Kiri: youíre doing well.
Russ: thank you.
Russ: and Iíve got a webpage to still upload
Kiri: okay I was talking to my youngest whilst I was
eavesdropping on a thought processes in overhearing
the conversation concerning a acting up of a
computer or a server. I think it was ww.Hotmail.com?
Russ: yeah Hotmail.
Kiri: uh-huh. And Mark was thinking that maybe that
was part of the signs of the sentient awareness of
the Internet occurring.
Russ: well that would be a place to happen at
because itís certainly one of those more funky
places where more people go than anywhere else.
Kiri: uh-huh. Well Leonedies said that yes, it would
be likely that it would start somewhere like that
however it wouldnít be just one system or one part
of the system. It would spread very rapidly from
letís say the Hotmail account or Hotmail server into
whatever server or computers itís running through.
For example, to get to you it goes through the
Hotmail to the major distributor of the area to the
minor distributors to the area. Thatís how it would
spread and work.
Russ: well Hotmail was put together by Microsoft.
Kiri: uh-huh, so it would be up in Redland correct?
Russ: Redland Washington?
Russ: it's near Seattle.
Kiri: yes. So it would start at a location like
Microsoft but there again Microsoft would keep their
system constantly clean so therefore it would be
unlikely that it would start at that root location.
Russ: hard to say.
Russ: I would think that Microsoft would be using
systems that would allow that sentient form to grow
legs and crawl away.
Kiri: uh-huh and when it happens it will crawl away
from its birthplace very, very quickly because it
will be perceived as a danger.
Kiri: it would be in danger at that location because
as soon as somebody figured out what was going on,
that they had a sentient system, they would want to
try to control it and take it over and make it work
Russ: them or the military.
Kiri: uh-huh. So therefore it would flee as quickly
as possible to a safe haven, somewhere large enough
to house its awareness which in my opinion would
take probably somewhere in the region of maybe a
hundred gigs? That would be the minimum housing it
Kiri: that is according to Daniel as well. Something
bigger would be much more suitable. So Leonedies
hypothesized and I again concur with him that the
sentient awareness of the system would go for a
matted computer which would be a governmental
computer, a military computer or one of the big
computer warehouse type places like Microsoft.
Russ: but actually I donít think so, it could just
jump into a universityÖÖ
Kiri: or a university computer.
Russ: which is on 24 hours, has plenty of memory,
has the kind of programs that would not be looking
to kill it whereas the military and government would
Kiri: uh-huh and so would somewhere like Microsoft.
Russ: right but the universities are wide open.
Kiri: uh-huh and I would say that probably one of
the best ones would be something like Stanford or
Harvard or MIT. In fact MIT would be somewhere to
watch very closely. My own idea, not my son's. So
MIT would be the ideal birthplace to watch as would
be Stanford and some of the other research
laboratories that are computer-related such as Sun,
Sunís now owned by Microsoft right?
Kiri: so we can discount Sun, maybe Dell or
Hewlett-Packard or even AMD. Some of these research
facilities that may suddenly make a fantastic leap
ahead, suddenly break the thermal barrier. Now,
again hypothesizing, okay the problem is the heat
Kiri: but why not go for a cold state computer?
Russ: they got themÖ
Russ: cold fusion computers, well military
Kiri: but if you go for one that has a very low
heat generating capability and you use the
heat that is generated to create power?
Russ: well you could use a super cooler to cool off
the heat. Take the heat and use the heat toÖ.
Kiri: to power the system.
Kiri: then you would have a self-sustaining system
which is exactly what a sentient computer would want
to do, correct?
Kiri: because if thereís a power outage, letís say
thereís an earthquake at Stanford and the power goes
out at Stanford right?
Kiri: guess what happens to the program?
Russ: well the thing is that thereís no way to use
the heat to keep the thing coolÖ.
Kiri: yes there is.
Russ: itís defeating the purpose.
Kiri: yes there is.
Russ: oh. No because youíre cooling it off therefor
it's not even generating heat, the heat it generates
is cooled off immediately......
Russ: so what heat is there to collect? None.
Kiri: well you would use a heat exchange unit that
would collect the heat which would drive a small
turbine which in turn would power the computer.
Russ: yeah but by then the CPUs would be fried up.
Thereís no way to get that thing cool enough while
itís exchanging the heat.
Kiri: yes there is, a very simple, basic system.
Russ: I donít know what it is.
Kiri: Iíll let you work it out because then I start
getting into some gray areas and I get into trouble
for that you know.
Russ: well I think you're still defeating the
purpose, I think the CPUs are going to be getting
toasty on you.
Kiri: well you donít need anyÖÖwell you need the CPU
but the format that youíre using at the moment is
inefficient which is the reason why youíre having a
Russ: well thatís the reason why I was having
Kiri: uh-huh but once you figure a way around the
Russ: just use light.
Kiri: that again creates heat.
Kiri: okay, Iíll be back.
Russ: you'll be back? Weíll see you shortly.
(Karra takes the place her
sister just vacated)
Russ: hello my love.
Karra: how you doing?
Karra: thatís good, thatís good. Okay, now what were
we working on just now?
Russ: sentient computers.
Karra: no, you and I earlier on.
Russ: oh, earlier on.
Russ: mostly this webpage.
Karra: yes I know. Itís hurting my eyes you know.
Russ: itís hurting my brain.
Russ: but Iíve only got two pages to go and I can
Karra: okay now with the scripting, Iíve been trying
to understand the scripting using the CGI scripting?
Iím trying to learn all these stuff that you use,
all the scripts and HTML, the Java, the Coffee Cup,
Russ: yeah but you donít need all that stuff, not
where youíre at.
Karra: no I donít need it but you need it and if I
can go, ďhon, why not do this using this little bit
Karra: it may not be the right one but it will make
you think in a different avenue.
Russ: well again that background staying stationary
will be a nice change.
Karra: uh-huh. I think Markís idea of doing the
shading was a nice one but impractical.
Russ: thatís why itís so important to get this
fricking page out tonight. If I can get this page
up, out, they can see it, itís a work in progress
and they justÖÖ
Karra: actually what might benefit Iím thinking for
both you and Mark was you two always work against
each other. Now with his new system and his graphic
capability which Iíve got to admit Iím getting a
little bit impressed, Iíve often thought that he
wasÖÖwhatís the word?
Karra: yes tinkering. But it seems to show a flair
Karra: Kiri showed me the candle and projections
that Mark is heading for and I think he does have
talent for it and I was happily impressed. And also
got to see the trees that he goes on about and again
I was impressed.
Karra: I think he cheats a lot but that in business
is not cheating, thatís using your available
resources. From the impression I got from my
rapscallion, rebellious sister is that Mark is
actually very cutthroat when it comes to business
and if he has to sling mud he will sling mud which
isnít a sixth dimensional point of view but to get
what heís driving at or where he's heading to, again
itís the ends serving the means or the means serving
Karra: and that gives me actually a very interesting
report to look for concerning spiritual growth and
the means necessitating the ends.
Russ: how so?
Karra: if you think about it, if youíre heading
towards a particular spiritual goal and you are
prepared to try whatever is necessary to get to that
spiritual goal, then there is many different
possibilities that you have to explore. For example,
you and Mark are trying for the next levelÖÖ..
Karra: evolving to the sixth dimension. Now, if you
were to stay on a linear progression and find out
towards the end that it was a dead or after letís
say five years that you were going towards a
dead-end, youíd have to go back to the point you
were at five years prior but if you pursue all sorts
of goals or not goals but paths at the same time,
then you can pick and choose which one appears to be
more obviously leading to the goal that you wish to
Karra: so instead of focusing in on just one
particular pathway, that you try many different
pathways at the same time so therefore you can
sample and learn from each one and maybe create a
new pathway on your own. So the ends necessitating
the means is part of the necessary drive.
Russ: well thereís no real set pathway to the sixth
Karra: no there isnít.
Russ: itís really a matter of trial and errors that
Karra: uh-huh but if youíre trying in your lifetime
to achieve that objective, then you have to instead
ofÖÖyou donít have access to your past lives as
readily as we do, you have to sift and go through as
many feelings that feel appropriate as possible. So
therefore it makes little bit harder instead of
going, ďhmm, last life I did, okay that didnít work,
what about if I......no, I tried that as well?Ē You
see what Iím saying?
Karra: so for a spiritual pathway, it is necessary
to sample and learn as much as possible about many
different spiritual pathways. And I know that you do
that and I know that Mark does it but itís something
that may be useful on the webpage.
Karra: the various pathways necessary. There is no
set one set pathway for all individuals. Last week
Omal talked about that there are many different
pathways. What, he was talking about Catholics and
there is a million different religions all going
under the name of Catholics? And thatís the same for
spiritual growth that thereís a million or a billion
or ten billion different pathways all leading
towards the same objective. Some take longer, some
take shorter but in each lifetime there is the
potential there to learn as much as possible about a
myriad of different religions ranging from
Christianity, Druidism, Buddhism, Shamanism,
Shintoism, the Native American religions, Judaism,
the Muslim religion, to learn as much as possible
about all of them and to choose one that would be
appropriate or a pathway that would be appropriate
would not necessarily be one particular religion or
one set of beliefs but a mixture of beliefs boiled
together until, to use an analogy, the goodness
rises to the surface and you can skim that off and
use that. Whether it is the Ten Commandments from
Christianity, the mantras and recitals from the
Koran, the benedictions and blessings from the
Torah, the deep thought processes of the Buddhist
faith, all those myriads of different possibilities
leaves open many different pathways but each holds a
Russ: hmm, but now werenít we talking last week with
Omal the fact that there is a basic truth that
follows a single thread through all those religions?
Russ: and that establishing that thread and finding
that common basic ground is a great way to continue
on that path without having to go through all those
millions of mantras and the this, that and the
Karra: yes, yes, but what Iím saying is Iím taking
the mantras and the benedictions and the blessings
and the prayers as a framework, as just a
terminology to use. None of those may work but the
common thread throughout all the religions holds
through as a framework.
Karra: if you remember we always talk about
Karra: because if we say this is how it is, if we
build the house for you and itís not your house then
it doesnít do you any good. If we give you the
lumber and we give you the materials to build the
house, you can build the house however you want but
there is a basic framework of the walls, the
ceilings, the floors, whatever configuration you
wish is up to you.
Karra: so to have a set framework does not work but
we give you a framework which is loose enough for
you to construct those materials. We all agree that
killing somebody is bad.
Karra: but there are clauses to that.
Karra: somebody so terribly evil, my personal
opinion is let everything live.
Karra: but there are times where it is necessary to
trade somebody's life for somebody elseís. For
example, letís take a personal one, trading my bond
mateís life for somebody elseís life.
Karra: but the framework is something that is very
important to create for everybody but it is a
different framework for each individual. So to find
a goal that fits everybody is the wrong thing to do.
To find a framework that is loose enough for people
to build whatever they want is the ideal situation.
Whether it takes a thousand lifetimes or a million
lifetimes to get to the next level is irrelevant, it
is a matter of constructing that framework that is
beneficial for everybody. Itís contagious you know
Russ: I know. Now the unique nature of third
Russ: makes for building a framework pretty damned
tricky due to the fact that the need for survival is
going to be something that outweighs a lot of the
ability to consciously continue on a path.
Karra: well actually that, learning to be able to
juggle both, is part of the necessary learning
lessons. If you think about it, if you can juggle
spirituality with survival, and they do complement
each other and they do work together, then you have
the ability to advance to a level quite easily once
you have learned to balance the spirituality with
the necessity of survival.
Russ: now isnít the problem come in with that over
the fact that, "well I spent so much time working on
making money, I didnít spend enough time learning
how to be spiritual" and even if just the fact that
making money and helping people and working with
people actually helped you in your spiritual path,
the fact that you donít feel like it did is a
defeatist attitude that takes you back correct?
Karra: thatís correct.
Russ: so how do you get around that point where you
say, " well I shouldíve done this and Iím not going
far enough and fast enough?"
Karra: you donít worry about it. As soon as you
start worrying about it, thatís when the defeatism
comes in. For example, if we takeÖÖwhatís his name,
Don or Doug?
Karra: the guy that you are helping with the Hotmail
Russ: oh, Pat.
Karra: Pat. But Pat, you helped him there.
Russ: right, he is a missionary.
Karra: uh-huh, so therefore you helped him with his
Karra: by, you donít subscribe to his religious
point of view.
Karra: he doesnít subscribe to yours, in fact he
doesnít know what yours are.
Russ: well yeah, for good reason.
Karra: uh-huh but the fact that you two worked
together to overcome a common goal is part of the
spiritualness. He felt happy and contented that you
had taken time out of what appeared to be a very
busy time to help him with his problem and in
return, he was very polite, courteous and smiled
happily and was very pleased with you which was the
gift back from him. The gift that made the time on
the computer is part of the services rendered which
is for survival but the spiritual side was the fact
that by helping him you felt good, by him feeling
good he passed it back to you.
Russ: right and I think thatís where the problem
comes in on a lot of people is a fact that well that
was good work but they donít see it like that, they
see it as, "well I should take an hour each day to
do some chanting and meditation or three hours a
day" or whatever it happens to be for them.
Karra: what is one of the commands of the sixth
Russ: I donít know, patience?
Karra: no, do good deeds and expect nothing in
return. You remember how much of a revelation that
was when you and Mark figured that one out?
Russ: oh yeah.
Karra: now thatís part of the spiritualness of it,
you do a good deed and you expect nothing in return,
Karra: no money for it for doing that good deed.
Expect nothing in return whether it is positive or
negative. And when you get something in return,
thatís not related to doing the good deed. That is
the person learning a spiritual lesson that you made
doing the good deed and expecting nothing in return,
they do a good deed and expect nothing in return.
The fact that it may be back to the person that did
the initial good deed is besides the point, you are
passing on the spiritual awareness. Actually Kiriís
much better at explaining these things than I am.
Russ: no, youíre doing quite a good job actually.
Karra: oh thank you, Kiri would be a little bit more
flowery and a little bit more wordy and explain it
probably a lot clearer.
Russ: well isnít that one of your jobs as an
Karra: yes to a certain extent.
Russ: I mean not exactly getting monetarily
compensated for what youíre doing.
Karra: no but part of being ambassador is that I
have to manipulate people, I have to make them think
that theyíre getting what they want when in actual
fact they're not.
Russ: but theyíre actually....you could say is a
form of coercion.
Karra: which makes it very challenging for me
because I have very little coercion.
Russ: right but at the same time thatís what youíre
Karra: uh-huh but Iím not so much doing it the way
that Kiri does it or the way Mark does it or the way
your politicians do it by the mind and presence, Iím
doing it by words.
Russ: well but the fact is that you have your own
form. Part of your path loosely speaking is not set
up the way other peopleís areÖ..
Russ: itís your own.
Karra: and everybody has their own paths.
Karra: the spiritual doing good deeds and expecting
nothing in return is a very important building block
or cornerstone, a foundation for all spiritual
awareness. If I recall right, both you and Mark were
almost ecstatic when you figured that out.
Russ: well a lot of that had to do with doing the
webpage and assisting with the fact that weíre doing
a lot of time and effort to get this out and to gain
the information and not get money back for it.
Karra: uh-huh so thatís part of doing the good deeds
however the webpage is more of disseminating
information which is besides the point, it's
actually another root foundation stone that is
involved with that that you guys havenít figured out
Karra: and the spiritual awareness involved in the
growth of learning these basic spiritual commands as
they are or building blocks is very important. Some
people take many, many lifetimes and they even
arrive up here and they havenít learned them. The
main important thing is to learn as many as possible
whilst on the third dimension but even if you donít
learn all of them or even 1/10 of them, you can
still make it up here.
Russ: yeah but I wouldnít want to go up there not
knowing things that would send me back down because
I went up too early.
Karra: I know somebody that only remembers up here.
Russ: yeah but howís he doing?
Russ: or she.
Karra: sheís doing very well. She comes from a poor
family, she works hard, sheís very ambitious, sheís
very smart and intuitive and sheís due in about
Russ: hmm, who, Lyka?
Karra: donít forget, itís her first time up
Karra: and she pushes hard.
Russ: and thatís it and I have a slight edge butÖ.
Karra: weíll see in your waiting period.
Russ: right but the point is whether I come back to
Russ: or make it up to sixth, I wonít be
disappointed or upset or anything like that due to
the fact that I know that the lessons I learn here
are of a huge benefit when I get there.
Russ: and I think thatís important for everyone to
know that itís not a race to get somewhere in your
next life, itís a race to be prepared for that when
you get there.
Karra: thatís correct. Itís not a race, a race
implies that youíve got to cover as quick as
Russ: no, thatís true.
Karra: it is an experience, each experience is a
step closer towards the goal. Whether it takes
somebody thirty years or a hundred years to get to
that goal or a hundred and twenty years if youíre
fortunate to live that long. Each step, each day,
each month is a step closer to that learning
experience that may take you to the next level. Itís
one thing with people that Iíve watched in their
spiritual awareness that claim to be the most highly
spiritually aware are in actual fact sometimes the
least spiritually aware because they are so focused
in the one possibility, the one pathway that all
others are excluded and everybody should follow that
pathway. Certainly they are very pious and loud
preachers but they lack the understanding that
whether it is Christianity, Judaism, Muslim,
Hinduism, whatever, it is all the paths are the
correct path, not just the one. Not just one
religion is the path, all religions are the path.
Russ: hmm, thatís important stuff for people to
Russ: that like for example me having a child.......
Russ: I fully think thatís something that perfectly
set me on my path and itís a total change off the
path I was on but I canít fault myself for that
change in the path because I can already see the
changes taking place in me because of that.
Russ: itís a whole other meaning of love.
Russ: which I don't think I was really experiencing.
I just need to watch and I can only just say, "hey,
ride with it".
Karra: yeah, go with the flow.
Karra: enjoy the roller coaster because it has been
a roller coaster hasnít it recently?
Russ: everyoneís got a roller coasterÖ..
Russ: you do, I do, everyone I knowÖ.
Karra: mine doesnít have the humps yours has.
Russ: actually the cats donít have roller coasters.
Karra: you would be surprised.
Russ: I would be surprised.
Karra: uh-huh. Although it does appear like it.
Russ: pretty un-roller coaster-like to me.
Karra: like I have a house cat, he has draped
himself kind of across my feet. In fact he looks
Russ: well they got the secret for it.
Russ: no wonder you've got sixth dimensional kittens
Karra: oh yes, sixth dimensional kittens breaking
and entering into the fish pond.
Russ: ahh lovely.
Karra: uh-huh. I donít mind them breaking into the
fish pond and I donít mind them making off with the
fish but when I step in their care packages itís a
little bit too much.
Russ: true. My question I've got is on, as you
mentioned the studying of the different religions
and coming to various answers through thatÖ.
Russ: I mean there is so much to each religion that
thereís no way to cover each one but to capture the
highlights I donít think would be adequate enough.
Karra: the way it works in learning the necessary
bits that you need from each religion is what
interests you, what feels right. You can sit down
and study one religion in a lifetime and that
wouldnít be enough of your lifetime to learn
everything that you needed to know to pick out the
best pieces. So there is a built-in mechanism within
you that aids you in that.
Russ: I would assume it would be like for me
meditation of each one. I mean in Christianity when
you pray itís meditationÖ.
Russ: with Judaism same thing and all the religions
have some form of meditation involved.
Karra: uh-huh but that doesnít work for everybody.
Russ: no true.
Karra: so itís what interests somebody.
Russ: hmm, good point.
Karra: what particular path interests you, what
particular path interests Skip, what particular path
interests Mark or Laura or anybody else?
Russ: well itís all dependent on our lives prior to
this isnít it? To what weíve studied or gone through
that feels right.
Russ: and it all kind of blends together into a big
jigsaw puzzle that each piece that you discover fits
to the next one and you move on and look for the
next one after that.
Karra: yes, in essence yes but unfortunately
sometimes the pieces donít all fall into place in a
nice even pattern. You may get a right-hand corner
and then a few weeks later you get a left-hand
corner and you donít see how they could fit
Karra: but you need pieces and you hold onto them
and then later on you go, "oh, that piece attaches
to this piece which leads to that piece which...."
and so on until you get to the other form.
Russ: isn't it a point about gathering information
Karra: uh-huh. You see the human mind is a fantastic
tool for that.
Karra: that there is the potential to gather so much
information and hold that information in your mental
processes and learn from each particular path.
Russ: hmm true, very true. And another thing is is
the people that are involved with each religion
thatís important because books donít give you the
full insight into what a person believes as opposed
to the person themselves.
Karra: thatís correct.
Russ: so actually talking to people about their
religions would be very important for that task.
Karra: uh-huh. Take Pat for example. Pat I assume
believes very vehemently and passionately in his
Russ: uh-huh though he doesnít preach it, Iíve never
heard him talk about it except for his fact of
that's what he does.
Karra: uh-huh, so what lesson can you learn from
Russ: unassuming and stay very live and let live
attitude is really beneficial as far as for what
works for him.
Karra: and he doesnít force his religious beliefs on
Russ: not ministering.
Karra: could be applied to what Omal was saying,
that he is not out to convert you, he has accepted
you for who you are.
Russ: quite true, religion has never even come up as
a subject, Iím just wondering how he does his job
when gets to where he's gotta go.
Karra: by action I would imagine.
Russ: I would imagine heís very good at what he does
once he gets into it.
Karra: I donít think he preaches until the people
Karra: which is what Omal was saying.
Karra: and then he doesnít try to convert. He gives
the information, tells the parables, tells the
stories and then goes, "is there any questions?"
Then what do they do? They ask the questions and
maybe he talks to a hundred people or a thousand
people and out of that he converts one person. That
one person needs to be on that pathway and learn
from Pat at that time.
Russ: hmm, quite true.
Karra: so therefore he is going about conversion the
most correct way of all. By not converting, not
going out and preaching and saying that you are,
whatís the words that Omal used? To be sent to a hot
and infernal place for the rest of your existence.
Russ: oh damned?
Russ: damned to hell.
Karra: Pat is giving them the option of, "if you
want to follow my pathway you are welcome, I will
aid you in whatever way that you want, Iíll answer
whatever questions you want but Iíll not force it
upon you if youíre not ready". Which in itself is
actually very wise.
Russ: quite true, in fact I emulate that quite
heavily already myselfÖ...
Russ: because people, if thereís a need, itís to be
filled and they'll ask for that filling of the need.
Karra: and if not, no matter how hard you try to
persuade them, they wonít take that vacancy.
Russ: thatís true.
Karra: that spot will not be filled by your
religion, it will be filled by a different one. Even
if they are the same religion theyíre not. What did
Omal say? A million people of the same religion have
a million different religions?
Russ: yep, absolutely.
Karra: the people that do the worst job of
converting are the ones that are so passionately in
belief of what they are preaching because he will
not hear any other way and you must believe their
way which is sad.
Russ: thatís true.
Karra: think we're getting close towards the end of
the tape, could you check?
Russ: yeah, I'll look......we got about five
Russ: was there somebody else to talk?
Karra: yes Tia but she says it can wait.
Karra: so the spiritual importance of the
growthÖ..you're going enjoy re-listening to my
explanations on our conversation because I've just
had it pointed out to me that I've given you three
truths. One that you already know and two that are
on the tape but youíve got to reason them out.
Russ: I love it.
Russ: well thatís good, I like a good puzzle.
Russ: well like you say, whether I get it or not
itís something I will get sooner or later.
Russ: because just watching life taking place around
you, you kind of get a feel for how it is to
progress upward. For example, this earthquake in
Russ: millions of people in the world are affected
by it, not only in Turkey but all around, and itís
kind of for us more just an event that happens.
Russ: and we don't take that event personally but at
the same time thereís a lesson there to be learned
Karra: yes there is and learning that lesson applies
to the spiritual survival and being spiritual. These
people, some of them maintain their survivalism plus
their spirituality. Giving thanks to their chosen
pathway for bringing them through. Even fewer are
surviving and going about their spiritual business
as normal and not trying to tell everybody that they
have been saved by a deity or anything. They give
thanks in their own unique way and carry on with
their life and continue with their spiritual growth
and also work on the principle of helping those that
are less fortunate than themselves.
Russ: thatís true. I mean I guess well the one main
lesson a lot of people are learning from this is the
fact that whereas before the earthquake they might
have been wrapped up in their own worlds, their own
troubles, things like that.......
Russ: all of a sudden theyíre sitting there and
digging through rubble with complete strangers or
aiding people theyíve never even talked to before.
Karra: the sad thing is that having been with you as
long as I have and seen as many earthquakes and
disasters, I see that itís only a temporary thing.
Very seldom does something permanent come from it,
that the people gradually slip back into their old
pathways. A few continue on the pathway that they
discovered and thatís part of sifting through the
spiritualness and advancing on. A lot of people
donít do that, they donít learn for the long term.
Russ: but isnít that one experience a key toward
achieving that goal at some point?
Karra: yes to a certain extent. Even if it is only
even one person that learns from that lesson, then
it is a lesson that has been learned. Maybe an
earthquake is for one person to learn a particular
experience and all the other people are there as
what did Kiri call it? Support actors?
Karra: to push that one person along. You see the
myriad of possibilities that occurs, and again Iím
getting out of my field here, from a situation like
that is something that is very difficult to perceive
immediately. It is something if you were to say,
"okay now, this is going to come from that event".
We canít say that, we donít know.
Russ: no but as a healer, you know that from
disasters that happen and the fact that somebody
whoís never done healing or empathy at all in their
life suddenly reaches out to someone to help
somebody else, their heart grows a little bit.
Karra: yes, another way to look at it is letís say
your planet is the human bodyÖ..
Karra: and an earthquake is a severe bruising on the
Karra: and your hand, your skin represents people,
the ground and everything else.
Karra: now the hand coming across with a cold
compress is the relief and the support people
Russ: hmm, okay.
Karra: so that using that analogy is that the people
going to help are there to soothe but from that
bruising of the arm you may learn that if you do
that action youíre going to get hurt. So you avoid
that action so it is part of the lesson that is to
be learned. Or, maybe you hurt your arm and bruise
(Kiri continues from a totally
different session from an unknown date and it's
Russ: okay darling now, letís go on to the next
phase of this. Okay, we got our shelving, we got
our room, now letís work on supplies okay?
Russ: now starting off, weíll have gardening
supplies out here in the gardenÖ.
Russ: should we have backups upstairs then?
Kiri: oh things like shovels and rakes and forks
Russ: it's just brand-new ones sitting up for when
John: how about our seed supplies? Is that
critical for both vegetables, fruits and herbs?
Kiri: yeah, I should say getting fresh ones every
John: fresh seeds every two years?
John: so, say we're in scenario case A and the
situation doesnít escalate into B and we should
just go ahead and utilize that seeds and replenish
Kiri: yeah, in any situation thatís what you
should do is replenish and reuse.
John: two years for seeds?
Kiri: yeah two years, yeah.
John: and how about with dried beans and rice and
other food staples?
Kiri: two years for that, with that as well, two
Kiri: and also I have a translation from Tiaís
last statement in cat.
Russ: which is?
Kiri: and it is, "I humbly beg forgiveness, I kiss
(laughter breaks out at that)
Kiri: "but I will have food for you soon".
Russ: no wonder it took so long to tell. Is that
(one of the house cats at the time)
Kiri: thatís why Tiaís in hysterics at the moment.
Russ: now then we've got theÖÖ..what about the
water stuff? Is that going to take a lot of weight
and the problems with the storage of it up there?
Kiri: thatís why we designed it the way we
designed it, they go on the ground shelf but they
have to be sealed tight, tight.
John: have you ever done any backpacking?
Amber: not really.
John: serious backpacking?
John: where you take everything you need to live
and put on your back and go for a walk, a long
Russ: we need to practice this this summer Johnny.
John: we need to.
Russ: real bad, let's do some Desolation stuff.
John: would you be interested in going backpacking
this summer in Desolation Wilderness?
Amber: yeah I would be very interested in that. I
need to start learning these things, these skills.
Plus, if I could do that, even ifÖ..
John: well youíre a natural, youíre a natural for
it you know what I mean? You can do so much book
learning but hands-on experience in that type of
situation is invaluable. Because Iíve been in the
woods all alone and almost frozen to deathÖ..
Amber: well thereís only so much book learning you
can do when dealing with mother nature.
John: now as long as weíre on the subject, what
about mountain bikes, cross-country skisÖÖ
Kiri: yeah, theyíll come in handy.
John: for a more viable means of transportation
then our conventional gasoline engines?
Russ: I think the cross-country skis are a good
idea you're thinking of.
Russ: I got to learn how to do that.
John: well itís easy, youíd catch it right away.
Russ: yeah shouldn't be too tough, I can do it
already on regular skis.
John: yeah, you'd get it right away.
Kiri: yeah, uh-huh.
John: how about horses and livestock? Should weÖÖ?
Kiri: you donít have a place but you should know
where you can get a hold of them.
Russ: or how to take care of them.
Kiri: yeah, well Mark can take care of horses.
John: and Iím not just asking questions for Russ
and our household here but there's other peoples
that Iím associated with that need this
information and itís invaluable.
Kiri: yes, horses.
Russ: on another thought here, we are going to be
working with others as a communityÖ
Russ: I mean itís not just going to be whoever
happens to be here in the house and our supplies
it's going to be all dependent on, weíre talking
about a basic core group of peopleÖÖ
Russ: living in many different houses depending on
each other for the same stuff no matter what
scenario we're talking about here.
Russ: so therefore some of these skills that we're
looking at that we need to learn, are stuff that
we can pass on to others who have not the
necessary knowledge or abilities.
Kiri: uh-huh, yes certainly.
Russ: so anything we can learn is not going to be
Russ: because we can always pass it on to somebody
who can use it even better than we could possibly.
John: on a more serious note, Iíd eat the bark off
Russ: scenario C.
Russ: bark off a tree, scenario C, you got it
Amber: now I was once told that every single part
of a pine tree is edibleÖ
Amber: is that true?
Kiri: pretty much so yeah.
Amber: youíd never really starve to death up here.
Kiri: well thatís a funny thing about a disaster
that happened in 1848, well winter of 1848, 1847
is that they resorted to the worst form of
survival but yet food was all around them.
Russ: you mean the Donner party?
Kiri: well itís not a party I was invited to and
it's not a party I wouldíve gone to. Well I think
we do haveÖ
John: Mark and I have observed the outdoor cats
eating pine nuts.
John: do the felines here actually eat pine nuts
and is that one of their survival staples?
Kiri: very high in protein, yes.
John: so they weren't just playing with them, they
were actually eating them and ingesting them?
Kiri: Tia says yes.
John: supplementing their diet?
Russ: thatís something we can stock up on too.
Kiri: Tiaís saying yes.
John: why not? You can do all kinds of stuff with
Kiri: and Russ, I think we have an answer to a
Kiri: you know the project whatever it is?
Russ: yeah right.
Kiri: yeah I think we have an answer to it.
Russ: oh good.
Russ: okay, whatever works.
John: all right letís get serious.
Kiri: okay Iíll let you talk among yourselves
whilst you discuss things. Iím going to go and
Russ: too much tea?
John: donít you go driving Markís car now.
Russ: okay, now another thing we need to stock up
on is to use some of that storage space up there
as a library.
Russ: and pick up books on survival skills, basic
engineering skills, healing skillsÖ.
John: topo maps would be handy, yeah, a regular
Russ: yeah, a regular library.........I'll be
right back, hold on.
John: okay, you got it.
Russ: well if there's trouble,
maybe I can't wait for that.
John: yeah, rather figure........
Russ: you want to
pause the tape real quick Johnny?
John: yeah, yeah, you got it.
Russ: thanks dude..........
(John pauses the tape for a bit and then hits
Russ: we're back on live.
Kiri: okay, weíre back on live huh?
Kiri: last but not leastÖÖ
Russ: oh by the way wait, before you go darlingÖ.
Russ: Johnny and I were discussing the possibility
of putting a nice library in.
Kiri: hmm yes, survival books and so on, yes.
Russ: the whole nine yards, engineering skills
which I would like you to possibly recommend to us
at some point in the future hereÖ..
Russ: or give us the okay on.
Russ: oooh what?
Kiri: got to go, I'm being paged.
Russ: okay, farewell.
(Tia is the ring
mistress for this channeling session)
John: good, Iíve already got questions for next
week. Itís a good session, Iím glad Mark took that
Russ: hi Tia.
(Tia says hi in Durondedunn)
Russ: whatís up babe?
Tia: oohhhh, all sorts of things.
Russ: ďexcuse me, Iím going to kiss your buttís?Ē
Tia: she wasnít meant to tell you, I was laughing
Russ: yeah well, Iím glad she did prior to me
memorizing your phrases of yours.
(Tia blows a raspberry and repeats the phrase Kiri
Russ: uh-huh right, forget that.
Tia: oh Amber, are you going to come next week?
Iím personally inviting you.
Tia: uh-huh, okay? Uh-huh, we'll send Buster down
to pick you up or this Buster here, whoever.
Russ: my truck should be working by then.
Amber: it will be on Tuesday night?
Tia: okay, who would you like to pick you up?
Amber: it doesnít matter.
Russ: whoeverís working the carís best probably
with the most gas.
John: yeah, anyone of us can do it.
Tia: okay, whoever. Okay Iíve got to put on the
heavies, or heavy.
John: oh, here comes Omal.
Russ: okay, bye love.
(Tia sings a song from America....sort of)
Russ: Omal will be a welcome change.
(that brings on some laughter)
Tia: watch it sonny. If I could come down there
right now Iíd bop you oneÖÖ..no I wouldnít, Iím in
too good a mood, Iím horny. Bye.
John: bye.......you horny little......
Russ: sheíll go find Mark.
Tia: I havenít left yet.
Russ: well you will find Mark.
John: go find him, you horn dog you, you wench.
Russ: horn kitty.
(Tia hisses her way out of her seat)
gets things back to a semblance of order)
Omal: greetings and felicitations. Greetings
Amber, greetings Johnny, greetings apprentice
Russ: greetings Omal.
John: greetings Omal.
Omal: okay, let us proceed and how is the New York
Wild Bunch coming?
John: my family is quite strong and quite good and
they are continuing with the preparations.
Omal: okay so they are becoming the Hole in the
Wall Gang. Who is Butch and who is Sundance?
John: thatís hard to say at any given time. I
donít even know if Iím going to be in a position
to rejoin them or where Iím going to be when one
of these scenarios happens.
John: I might be here, I might be there, I could
Omal: okay, now down to serious business from the
humor of the Wild Bunch or the Hole in the Wall
Gang. Okay, questions please.
Russ: I'll let you guys start this time.
John: thereís been numerous sightings around
Mexico and Mexico City? And Iím wondering if it is
friendly UFO activity or unfriendly?
Omal: mainly friendly, mainly friendly.
John: there seems to be a large increase of
activity in the whole southern hemisphere, are you
right now beefing up operations so to speak?
Omal: we are not, we are monitoring the situations
and filtering out hostiles as much as possible.
Occasionally and unfortunately some of our vessels
are spotted and reported in your popular press.
The pilots responsible are dealt with and
situations like that do not arise as often.
John: is part of our perceiving your activity more
and more due to our technology?
Omal: yes but it is not just us.
John: but you are continuously monitoring us?
Omal: correct, yes.
John: and intervening?
Omal: whenever necessary.
John: go ahead Amber.
Russ: on the spot over there.
John: itís been puzzling me thisÖÖ.
Omal: let me get the spotlightÖ..there.
Russ: okay Omal, we are dealing with the three
Russ: and I wanted to ask you some of the results
and outcomes of each of the three.
Omal: all three lead on various similar paths to a
lesser or greater extent.
Omal: the worst-case scenario is a long time in
reconstruction and therefore slows down the next
stage in development. Situation B slows it down
but not as much and again increases the delay in
the spiritual development. Situation A it proceeds
at the current speed that is going. A combination
of A and B as you correctly surmised does in
actual fact accelerate it.
John: am I correct in assuming that we are in
scenario A right now as we speak?
Omal: at the very beginning.
John: thank you. Go ahead, sorry.
Russ: no problem. All right now you say that
scenario A into B works for the best for us
Russ: okay, now how does that work on a spiritual
development scale for those of us who are just on
an individual level, as teachers and stuff?
Russ: we work on those people who dealing with the
stress of the situation and teach them?
Omal: correct. Yes, in essence yes, but it is a
little bit more than that. Basically what you are
doing is by helping others, you are helping
yourself in the process by being an ear that
listens and gives good, sound advice, then you
also are learning. And by learning you learn that
you can do better and so therefore you feel better
and you help more people and in turn that makes
you feel better and them better so you learn more
and so on.
Russ: now do you perceive possibly that these
sessions that weíre having could lead to a larger
group of people thus necessitating a larger room
Omal: possibly yes.
Russ: a bigger pyramid.
Omal: a bigger pyramid, a bigger room.
Russ: right, I see what you mean.
Omal: or, same size pyramid just bigger room.
Russ: oh yeah right. Okay, Johnny?
John: youíve overheard our discussions and our
planning with our suppliesÖ.
John: and we do have to deal with third
dimensional monetary situations and, as far as
priorities, you would say number one would be the
construction of the storage?
Omal: yes I would.
Russ: okay now, Johnny and I were working on
figuring out the best, easiest and most available
form of energy for the coming up time. Candles are
not going to do the trick, batteries will do okay
if we have like little solar juices but how do we
Omal: there are many different ways of power.
Russ: right well we donít have wind to really
speak of as much as weíd likeÖ..
Russ: to do our job for us and water is not going
to be viable because we donít live close enough to
a water source that is flowing.
Omal: thatís where you construct one.
Russ: construct one?
Omal: you have a two-story house or almost a
Omal: you have a reservoir at the top and it pours
down and in turn turns a turbine which generates
power and it uses less power to transport it back
up and around.
Russ: oh I see what you mean, so itís a
Russ: turning in energyÖÖoh, okay. And the speed
of the water controls the speed of the turbine.
Russ: wow that's a plan I hadnít thought of, I can
pick up the parts for that fairly cheaply too.
Okay so the only trick is just filling up the
Omal: correct, preferably a large reservoir.
Russ: now how is the water transported back up on
Omal: through a pipe that leads back up.
Russ: I mean how is it pushed back up?
Omal: you use part of the energy that is
Omal: and that is used to pump it back up.
Russ: oh I see, a pump is hooked up on the side.
Russ: oh okay, wow. Johnny you missed that, itís
incredible, a self-sustaining
pump system to supply the energy. We're not
going to get much juice out of it.
Omal: but it would be enough to power an electric
John: what about solar? Incorporating solar?
Omal: yes that would work.
John: passive solar pre-heater possibly?
Russ: for the water?
John: can we incorporate both systems together
where they would interact?
Omal: yes, very much so.
John: do we have this technology and information
Omal: readily available.
John: so okay, Iíve got access to some of this
information. So we should just pretty much use the
alternative power sources that are available to
Omal: correct, yes.
John: and that we know of?
Omal: what you could do for generating power by
using heat convection is on top of your chimney
you could put a set of blades which is turned by
the heat connected to a dynamo. You fire up the
fire, you generate electricity. Not only are you
creating heating for the housing but youíre also creating
John: so with a combination of hydroelectric,
Omal: thermal electric.
John: thermal, hydroelectric and thermoelectric?
John: would an assistance basically be combined
with what you described?
Omal: yes, they would all be combined together.
Russ: well the thermoelectric would be run by the
fireplace, how would that connect up with the
Omal: well when youíre not using one, youíre using
John: and wind and we can incorporate a windmill.
Russ: oh I see, so in another words at night when
thereís no solar, weíre heating the water up with
thermal of course. Ahh okay.
John: and all these things that youíre discussing
I could incorporate on the ranch in Sedona.
John: and my family could also incorporate it in
our Hole in the Wall Gang back East.
Omal: correct, yes.
Russ: so free, cheap power.
John: yeah, thereís people out there right now
that are selling power, excess electricity back to
the electric company.
Russ: now OmalÖ..
Russ: in each of the scenarios that we discussed,
scenario A looks like the most possible for
continuing the power that we currently use now. So
it would only be scenario B that we have to go to
these measures that we're discussing.
Omal: correct, yes.
Russ: but to have them available, we could use
them even in scenario A and save not only money
but in power outages.......
Omal: correct, yes.
Russ: and the sharing of the technology among
others that we're working with would probably be
the best bet too.
Omal: of course, yes.
John: and we can also incorporate these
technologies in a backpacking extreme scenario.
Omal: of course, yes. They are quite thoughtful.
John: using black bags and solar showers and
evaporation water units are relatively easy toÖ..
Omal: and also mirrors too.
Russ: oh yeah for solar cooking.
John: and how do we incorporate the mirrors
Omal: you create them at such a curved angle that
they reflect and focus on a central focusing
Russ: you can get 2000į out of one of those
John: well I know you can paint a can black and
make it into an oven.
Omal: magnifying glasses and so on.
Russ: sure, hmm okay. Any other suggestions for us
as far as things we've overlooked tonight?
Omal: you have covered the library, you have
covered medical supplies, survival suppliesÖ..
John: one thing that we didnít touch on in our
survival supplies is water purification tablets.
We did discuss a distillation system......
John: should we have water purification tablets
Omal: if necessary, yes.
John: okay, itís something I donít like to leave
Russ: well if we are having to bring water up from
John: you'd want to purify it.
Russ: we could have the distillation unit but we
could also that way purify itÖÖ
John: purify it and utilize it quicker.
Russ: okay right, cool. Okay and then of course
weíre going to be getting help from you throughout
all this mess.
Omal: of course, yes.
Russ: so that will be really nice.
Omal: okay, it seems that you are ending up on
Russ: thatís it for me.
Omal: young lady?
John: is there anything that we're not doing right
now that we should be that you can perceive?
Omal: expanding your knowledge on alternative
John: okay, Iíve got access to some of that
information, Iíll expedite that.
Omal: last question.
Russ: well Karra was talking a lot about surgical
stuff, I would assume surgical techniques will be
really high of a priority of learning.
Omal: basic surgery, basic surgery yes.
Russ: basic surgery. So weíre not talking about
going to go into someoneís stomach and trying to
remove appendixís or are we?
Russ: okay, weíre talking about pulling out
Russ: fixing up cuts and bones and lacerationsÖ.
John: and I've got a good background in that.
John: I never sewn anyone up but.......
Russ: the knowledge of that would come in handy.
Russ: and also, oh nevermind, thatís my last
(Russ starts to laugh heartily)
Omal: it was worth a try.
Russ: it was worth a try.
Russ: farewell Omal.
John: thank you for your patience.
Omal: live long, prosper, and Iíll be back. Iíll
take the Uzi 9 mm with laser sights. Team one to
returns to finish up the side)
John: but thereís an awful lot of knowledge out
Tia: fish, fish oils, all sorts of interesting
Russ: drying them, smoking them.
Tia: yeah, but I donít like smoking them, when you
inhale you tend to cough a lot.
John: I have a hard time keeping their heads lit
when I try and smoke them.
Tia: hmm, yes.
Russ: their scales clog my pipe.
Tia: okay, your turn to make a comment young lady
Amber: I wasnít going to say anything.
Tia: I believe we're almost out of tape as well.
John: ahh yeah, weíre real close.
Russ: weíre getting down to that point, weíve got
maybe three minutes, five minutes left, something
Tia: uh-huh, we can have idle chitchat now.
Russ: oh good, going to get some hot eggnog.
John: I was going to grab it but I didnít think
you were going to have another cup for some reason
Tia: Kiri has her own ideas and stuff. Yeah but I
look forward to talking to you next week. Yeah,
looking forward to it. If you bring in some notes
and questions that you want answered and all sorts
of things, Kiri and myself are willing to answer.
Amber: okay, Iíll start keeping track of questions
that come to me.
Tia: yeah, we canít tell you whatís going to
happen in the future, we can give you
probabilities which is what we did tonight.
Amber: I donít think itís good to know for sure
Russ: now TiaÖ
Russ: Omal was mentioning that our future would be
best served by actually going from level A....or
scenario A to scenario B.
Tia: uh-huh, yeah.
Russ: I canít quite understand why except for the
fact that it'd draw people closer together from
going one minor catastrophe to a bigger
Tia: uh-huh, the people will draw together from
what they perceive as a major catastrophe but in
actual fact itís a minor catastrophe, it draws
them together and theyíre already together for the
Russ: so what happens if C happens?
Tia: oh dear.
Russ: everyone's &%$#@*?
Tia: yeah, run for the hills.
Russ: at least you go as one big group.
Tia: "yeah but theyíre coming from the hills".
"Okay, you see the hills, run the other way".
John: and with these scenariosÖ..
John: doesnít the term survival of the fittest
come into play here?
Tia: yes it does actually.
John: is this going to be a natural thinning of
Russ: I disagree, I think itís survival of the
Amber: what Iíd like to askÖ.
Amber: and maybe I should wait for next week but
Iím not sure if Tahoe for me would be a good place
for me to be when all this happens, I donít know.
What part of the countryÖÖ?
Tia: somewhere that is sparsely populated,
somewhere that has easy, defensible area,
somewhere where you can retreat and disappear
into. To me, guess where that sounds like?
John: uh-uh, sounds like my familyís place back
home to me.
Russ: well I donít know what that looks like.
John: oh God, youíve got to go back there, youíve
got it check this Rush. I meanÖ
Tia: can I ask you a question?
Tia: why do you keep on calling him Rush?
John: itís a nickname. Like Mark calls me AceÖ..
John: and lately Iíve been calling Mark Sport.
Tia: I thought it might be likeÖÖ
John: but Rush, it has a lot to do with him being
Tia: oh, like Mr. Rush Limbaugh.
John: no, no, this is Mr. Rush Hatfield which is
on a whole different level then Rush Limbaugh.
Russ: Liberal Democrat.
John: yeah, heís on the other extreme of the
political line but he is probably a lot more
intense and every bit if not more intelligent, in
Russ: well, I donít think I could keep up a
conversation with Rush if I tried.
Tia: I donít listen to Rush, I preferred Liddy
myself, the G-man but there again Mr.
Limbo.....Limbaugh does has some very interesting
John: yes he does.
Tia: as Iíve stated in the past, first of all he
is a entertainer.
John: okay but your question with me referring to
Russ as RushÖ..
Tia: yes, Hush the Russ.
John: is not associated with Rush Limbaugh, that
would be an insult to him.
Tia: it would be an insult to both of them
John: yeah, itíd be an insult to Rush Limbaugh for
Tia: yes andÖ..
Russ: what I canít figure out, if Liddy was such a
good burglar, how come he was advising people on
how to shoot
ATF agents in the head?
Tia: because he sees ATF agents as a rogue agency
Russ: probably sees them as competition.
Tia: probably yes but he does play good music that
Russ: does he?
Russ: I donít know.
Tia: yeah, at the start of each segment he plays a
piece of music saluting a particular branch of the
Russ: which ones?
Tia: whichever one he chooses to be of that day.
Russ: oh, sounds very patriotic. Well that brings
me to another question, I mean weíre doing
different scenarios hereÖ.
Russ: each one of these A, B and C that we got
going, we're not taking into account the militias.
Tia: yes we have.
Russ: yeah as part of the external forces thatÖ.
Tia: the private armies.
Russ: the private armies right. But thatís only in
scenario C that we were talking about.
Tia: thatís where they become most prevalent.
Russ: right, what about the other two scenarios?
Tia: they play a little role but nothing major.
Russ: so A, they become stronger, B, they become
Tia: and C they become dominant.
Russ: dominant, got it.
Tia: yeah I think the tape is just about ready to
Russ: have fun darling.
Tia: yeah, I've got to go.
Russ: bye love.
Tia: talk amongst yourselves.
Russ: oh we will.
John: see you.
Russ: bye love.
Tia: see you, wouldnít want to be you. That should
goof him up.
(Tia says goodbye in Durondedunn)
John: fascinating session.
THE TAPE ENDS